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#NASCAR #Disqualified #Hamlin
63 comments
It makes sense. In the old days a piece of tape on the grill or opening made a huge difference in performance. Wonder if Nascar will be satisfied with the lack of appeal and leave the penalty as is, or if more are coming.
The cluelessness in this whole comment section is insanity. Taping the grill was to reduce an opening which air enters, tape under the wrap is not providing that effect. Performance gains were negligible, but the consequences of being found wrong were massive.
I think NASCAR has to levy additional penalties for this. It was clearly placed there for an advantageous purpose and the nature of that is more criminal than what they hit RFK for when they tried a makeshift repair on a part during a parts shortage. If Gibbs gets away with just the DQs I think RFK has grounds to file a grievance.
@Racefan22 Exactly the tape was under the wrap on the body, BUT partly blocking the wheel duct opening between the wrap and the body. So the tape being clear even if you looked at or glanced at duct opening you wouldn’t notice it. That’s my opinion.
@Racefan22 And another opinion… if said wheel duct was partly blocked ( it would create more downforce on the nose of the car creating more speed) So picture the front of the car… no wrap, it will have 4 duct openings 2 on each side, they place the clear tape, then place the wrap on the body. Once that wrap is on that clear tape is almost invisible just glancing or looking at the front of the car.
@Serena P. thanks and that is my point. It had to be blocking something to create an advantage for that big of a penalty. If it was just tape left over from the wrap it wouldn’t have led to all of this.
Something to bear in mind: There is no reason whatsoever for JGR to put the tape there, no matter how thin, unless they thought there was some sort of advantage that was impactful enough to justify the risk of getting busted.
They have decals all over the fucking car a little piece of tape ain’t gonna make a bit of difference, but a bunch of dollars in there pockets from HMS will!
@Gary Battle guess you don’t understand what the little pieces of tape they used before this generation of car were used for in the past. Are you new to racing? If not then I guess you should go back and understand what those pieces of tape did and why they were used.
@Alan I know that lil piece of tape didn’t help those cars under the wrap that’s just bullshit!
@robert stilwell put a kotex with wings and it should fly according to these damn technicians on here !
@Alan you made my point they didn’t check 3-4-5 hr was announced they didn’t check for that same infraction
In the Bubba Wallace Netflix show, Denny himself said something along the lines of the smallest change to your car can be the difference between leading the pack and being at the end
Edit: These were Denny’s exact words in the show (2nd episode of Race: Bubba Wallace)
“So, if you can gain ten thousandths of an inch, that’s the difference in a car being a first place car and a 10th place car”
Ten thousandths of an inch turned Denny’s car into a 35th place car
@81casperflip this time!
Eric – thiink about these 2 things & my answer to your question
-There’s an old story I remember hearing about Hendricks Motorsports painting sponsor decals and numbers on their cars at SuperSpeedways because the thickness of a vinyl decal created drag. I think (or would bet) they still do it. So I can see that thin of a decal having an effect. Think how strong the side draft is. So if that strip can just move air off the side of the car, it helps. Or maybe it’s there to help disrupt the air on another car to help pass. Plus the strip was under the wrap, it’s not a hard edge, it’s a smooth change that changes to shape of the car because the wrap doesn’t create the hard edge, but a smooth slope.
-Now some teams still paint their cars. How can NASCAR police a team from doing the exact same thing, but putting a few extra layers of paint that can’t be peeled back like a wrap can? If the car is that aero dependant, that an extra layer of paint or vinyl here or there can change the performance… things will just get worse with teams getting “creative” if that small of a thickness can significantly change aero and get past OSS.
– – – – –
Why didn’t the OSS pick it up? Every car has decals over their paint or their wrap, I could imagine there are tolerances for decals. “Hey this car is over by 0.012 inches.” ‘That’s the NASCAR logo, it’s good.’ If they had to manually verify every single vinyl sponsor or number, it would take days. I think they trust teams or had trusted teams in this area.
@Sergeant Masson Since they also qualified 1-2, I’m guessing it was.
All valid points, thx for sharing.
Who is Hendricks Motorsports?
Thanks so very sweet
So instead of tape they could just have added a coat of paint under the wrap?
I think it’s a certainty that if the tape didn’t give some measurable advantage, it wouldn’t of been put there by the teams.
Could have been used to help alligning wrap
@Justin Bryant wasn’t it a clear vinyl?
@Justin Bryant I wonder whether the tape could have been there for some innocuous reason like this. But if so, wouldn’t JGR have included this reason in their public statement? To me, that is more telling than not appealing the decision.
@Justin Bryant Please!
@Justin Bryant both wraps on separate cars needed tape in the same spot to align the wrap? lmao.
To me, the reason the OSS didn’t catch it was because it was within tolerance. Especially when you consider the 11 failed qualifying inspection twice and passed on the third time.
I think it’s also worth pointing out that Elliott finished in the top two all four weeks prior to Pocono, so was presumably subjected to the full teardown all four of those weeks. Just to head off any conspiracies at the pass.
@Gemma Gean Chase car was long gone. So it didn’t get checked out. PLUS CHASE ELLIOTT said his car wasn’t really that good at Pocono race.
Jd gibbs said they found something before the race so I bet it was on every Gibbs cars and Bubbas trying to get him running up front
@Steve Perry Wrong. They hold the top 5 and a random car. They inspect one and two and the random one. If one fails and two passes he wins. If the top two fail third is subject to the same inspection. If he passes, he wins like this past weekend. If he fails they go to fourth.
@Gemma Gean Nope. Chase was gone, but his car got inspected. They hold the top 5 and a random car. They inspect first and second and the random one. If first fails and second passes he wins. If the top two fail third is subject to the same inspection. If he passes, he wins like this past weekend. If he fails they go to fourth.
Heard an interview with one of the NASCAR officials and he said that is how it is.
Chase Elliott is actually Harry Gant’s child as is Dale Jr and Michael Andretti. Pretty much all second generation racers and beyond are (even Michael Waltrip but Ol’ Harry denied that one fiercely). Head that conspiracy off at the pass.
It warms my heart knowing these guys are still trying their damnedest to get an edge. I am very glad that it wasn’t a first time winner that got DQ’d but it still sucks knowing we kinda got job out of watching this race.
The fact they accepted the penalty WITHOUT appealing, leads me to believe there are other things NASCAR did NOT discover. Now, should there have been a DQ loss of race for a piece of tape? No…send a message by suspending crew chief, and car chief for 6 races, take away driver and owner points. I’m no fan of Hamlin, but who at NASCAR is telling her to give back that checkered flag?
Both cars were taken to Charlotte and completely disassembled and inspected. To appeal or not has no bearing or influence on that.
to the argument about just handing teams points reductions : they did that in 2017 and 2018, calling the wins “encumbered.” How did we respond? We absolutely threw up a storm of complaints when Kevin Harvick won a race at Texas with an illegal spoiler in 2018. NASCAR implemented the rule change where they could and would strip wins away if the teams were caught cheating for the 2019 season. We, the NASCAR fans, asked for this change. Now that we got it? People are complaining about it. Team shouldn’t have been caught cheating in the first place, so take those complaints and throw them in the trash.
No matter what the infraction, what you are missing is both cars, two separate teams under jgr, had been modified. So obviously they knew there was some kind of advantage and they intentionally did this to at least two of the cars. So this was no fluke. This is not a crew chief finding a small way to cheat. This was on two different cars so Nascar knows it was intentionally done by jgr. Thus the harsh punishment of removing the win. Someone, probably trd came up with the idea to intentionally modify these vehicles for an advantage. The way Bush was running off and leaving everyone was suspicious from the start. IMO
Eric, thanks for so eloquently restating NASCAR’s driving motive for the NexGen car and how it can level the playing field of Cup racing to make the sport more compelling and broaden it’s reach. While certainly these infractions seem petty to some, I totally agree that NASCAR has no recourse than to enforce the rules to the T. Well done!
I think JGR did multiple things to the car to get an advantage. They got caught with the tape but other things slipped by. That’s why they accepted the penalty and moved on quickly. They don’t want the other “modifications” to get caught
That makes no sense because Nascar took both cars and broken them down and inspected everything. They found nothing else wrong on them. That came out today. They did find stuff on Michael McDowell though and he got busted with a huge penalty.
Yeah when I saw that they didn’t try and appeal it I figured they probably had more that didn’t get caught
All teams cheat, some are better at hiding than others, and sometimes they get discovered by bad luck
B S! There was no other penalties ,if there were other things on the car NASCAR would have found them already cause they completely ripped down both of the cars over the last couple days.
@LAWNMAN Martinfan Yeah. I don’t know who @benLynxwiler is, but I guess he didn’t hear they took those cars back to the Nascar R&D center and broke both cars down, piece by piece. Not one thing was found to be wrong.
The fact that the tape was UNDER the wrap likely means A- they knew it was an advantage, B they intetionally tried to hide it
Hide it yes, on both cars yes, why? We know why, they got caught.
But the winning car is always unwrapped?
plus it was clear, meant not to be seen
Bull
It was left on by the people that do the wrap, more Nascar bullshit, WWE at its finest
Here’s how I understand and/or see this situation:
The genesis of the next gen car was the owners and the sanctioning body looking to fix a “broken” business model by limiting spending on wind tunnel time, R&D, engineering, etc. Thus helping level the playing field. This was accomplished by creating a single, uniform platform with spec components that all teams are required to purchase from NASCAR licensed vendors. Any modification, unsanctioned repair, or duplication of any single source part is a rules violation. This includes even the addition of a piece of tape, which is why the teams are no longer allowed to add tape to the grille area of the cars during the race. Its a rule that is in place to protect the integrity of the parts and to control the amount of engineering dollars spent to manipulate the aerodynamic drag of the car as a whole. NASCAR worked extensively before season’s start to get the 3 manufacturer’s cars as close as possible in regards to aero drag coefficient numbers.
The pre and post race Optical Scanning Station tests are not perfect. They are precise but not exact because there is human error in assembly and other tolerances allowed per the rulebook. This not a penalty because the tape made the car “out of tolerance”, its a penalty because JGR modified a single source part. That is why the top 2 finishers and a random car at every race undergo both an exhaustive post race tear down and a trip to the NASCAR R&D Center for ever further scrutiny.
These teams invest lots of money to pay very smart people to utilize ver expensive tools and software to find any and all advantages. The goal is not to “cheat”, but rather to play in the “gray areas” when finding these advantages. “Gray areas” get “hand slaps”, violating black and white rules gets fines and penalties. JGR didn’t play in the gray, they played in the black and white.
The 11& 18 were fastest in practice, qualified 1 & 2 and finished the race 1st & 2nd driving away from the field. I guess they did have an advantage.
Obviously
Or it was down to driver skill, people acting like drivers have never pulled away from the pack before lol
Might have missed something else completely?
I’m thinking the tape may have been used to ”bridge” the curve at the wheel opening, as in leaving a air gap under it and the wrap smoothed it out so it acted as a larger ”filler” in the valley…..THAT would make a large aero improvement even though the tape was paper thin itself. Basically a ”Bubble” under the wrap at a key spot.
A tape 2.5″ by 5″ covering any part of the grill or any part of the nose area or wheel well area, when no other cars theoretically have a similar tape, will give them an advantage no doubt. Glad that they actually penalized a winning team instead of letting them keep the win.
Just heard that McDowell’s car failed inspection at the R&D center too. So 3 for 3 of the cars that were really looked at failed. That makes you think that the majority of the cars in the race were not “legal”.
It’s what I expect. If you aren’t cheating, you aren’t trying hard enough. I endorse the win removing penalty as an act to try to deter such things as well.
3/4, Stenhouse 47 car was looked into as well
I think it was Andy Petree on the Dale Jr. Download that talked about putting things on the car that he knew he could/would get busted for in order to draw away Nascar’s attention from what he didn’t want them to find. I know the next gen car & rules are much different. I also agree it would be very hard to quantify the advantage the tape gave the 11 & 18, but either JGR has quantified the advantage or they are hiding something else.